I have never said take benefits from anyone in this country. I suggested all should be treated equally. Indigenous do get twice the amount of money per head than the rest of Australians. I did not say take that away from them. All I am saying is the Voice referendum is being pushed on us and we do not know what it will entail now and in the future.I agree tax should be more fairer as the rich have means and ways of paying much less as do corporations. I do not agree in taking away peoples assets though. My son has epilepsy and has seizures up to 5 times in a row and it cannot be controlled. He needs a safe house to live in and has had his name down since he was 20. He is now 50 and not had one offered. Isn't he entitled to being treated fairly also. I personally think everyone should be treated with dignity.

I’m sorry for your son Linda, housing is generally state funded if I’m correct? Although I’m pretty sure NDIS can fund assisted living houses too. It’s a shame when you see people less needy being provided with more assistance. NDIS needs an overhaul. A lot of agencies are profiting too much, and that means less funding for the individuals that require it. Your title of ‘the voice vs bulk billing’ suggests that we take from a program that’s main aim is to assist the most vulnerable in our country to fund Doctors and clinics, which is also important. Bulk billing does still exist. But the governments changes to it means it’s less profitable for Drs and clinics to bulk bill. Some of these clinics are foreign owned chains. Some have been caught falsifying records in order to get more money from Medicare. These clinics, rather than our most vulnerable should be your first point of call for criticism. The government wastes a good chunk of money in a lot of other areas too. The rich get richer, and that’s exactly where we should be aiming our frustration, at government policies that allow that to happen. We don’t have to feel personally guilty for the past treatment of our indigenous population, we didn’t make those decisions ourselves. But we do need to acknowledge that this puts them at a disadvantage, even today. And white privilege is a thing. We don’t notice because it doesn’t disadvantage us, but it’s alive and kicking and something that I’ve seen personally in a healthcare setting with a young indigenous workmate. The voice needs to be better defined before we vote, I do agree. But there are plenty of other areas more deserving of criticism here.

I don't disagree that the government wastes money which I think I have allured to. The NDIS is next to useless and many get no help at all. Again, unscrupulous people rip off the system. I really don't think they care that it is tax payers money. I agree the Bulk Billing was also ripped off. However, bulk billing is no longer going to be available and as of tomorrow my clinic is no longer offering it. I think you now have to pay for all consultations on the Gold Coast. One has also to pay for all treatments, all x-rays etc. again leaving the vulnerable and lower income families out in the cold. I also think I alluded to the rich getting richer. Unfortunately, my son is a single white male aged 50 and keeps getting put down the list as others jump the queue. He is at a disadvantage due to this. Of course there are many things we could discuss deserving of criticism but I just questioned the need for the voice v other problems that to me are more important at this time including health, housing, and security.

Priority housing lists assess the risk of homelessness first. If your son isn’t at risk, he won’t make it to the top. Especially considering the huge amount of homeless we already have. Think about what you said about him being a single white male for a moment, you imply that others jump the queue because of this? Families with young kids, people already homeless, people more at risk. These people are getting on a priority list above your son, who, I’m assuming isn’t already homeless? There is your problem. Your son has a supportive family. Not that he is white. It’s that he is supported. Implying he is disadvantaged for being white, (and supported) is kinda insulting for the people who are disadvantaged for not being white.

No you misunderstood. The fact that he is a single white male makes him less likely as families will go before him naturally as do single mothers and people with more needs. He is also homeless I might add and has mental issues. I was just stating a fact which you have taken incorrectly. If I just said a single male, homeless, epileptic with some mental issues who has been on the list for over 30 years (all fact) what would have your comment been then.

I probably wouldn’t have commented because you didn’t mention the fact that he was white as being a disadvantage to his obtaining a house. I do feel for your son and you, it’s not right. Homelessness is a huge issue I agree. And bulk billing should be available to all on a limited income. The main issue I take with your initial statement is the suggestion that we don’t use taxpayer funds for the voice and instead use it for bulk billing. Why would you go for a program intended to help some of the most vulnerable in our country as an example of where we get the money from, instead of using an example that allows the rich to get richer? And you seem annoyed that Indigenous Australians get more money per head spent on them on average than the rest of us. There is also more money per head spent on people with chronic illnesses, such as epilepsy through our healthcare system. I don’t have epilepsy, so why should they get more than me? (I don’t think that at all by the way) The past treatment of our indigenous people still causes many problems today through the intergenerational trauma that has developed due to the atrocities that their parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc were subjected to. The past isn’t the past. The past is what’s causing these inequities now. And it absolutely should be addressed.

You know I did not mention he was white as being a disadvantage to his obtaining a house. I stated a fact of who he was. I notice others on this site say they are indigenous etc. and nothing is said about that but say "white" and comments arrive left right and centre. My point is it should not make any difference. I did not say taxpayer funds should not be used on the referendum in the future but just not at this time when we have so many issues for the 'whole' of the Australian people with health, housing, etc. high on the agenda. From what I have understood, The Voice is just that. It is allowing the indigenous to discuss matters with the government. There are indigenous in parliament now. The Voice is not about money going towards this or that. The millions spent on the actual Referendum is what I am talking about. At this point in time it is not using taxpayers money in the best way with all the problems which also affect the indigenous being housing, health, security etc. which are all in freefall. I am not annoyed that the indigenous get more money although I think much of it is wasted, I was just giving a fact. My son is not getting the help he needs although we have gone through hospitals, local medical centres, etc. to no avail. It is frustrating especially after so many years.

I think there would be some evidence of killings pre indigenous arrival. I do not think this is necessary to bring into this conversation Re The Voice issue. The ABC have been raked over the coals for misinformation which as they are a public station is not on. I doubt if others will have this right as this is just for the Indigenous and I would hope this is built into the constitution if it passes. All parties have their agendas. I just say let them all have a go in power for up to 6 years then change them and at least that way everyone in Australia gets something from the parties not just skewed for the few. I hope before we have to vote we get a clear and concise explanation of what it is about, what it entails and how it will affect the future of every Australian.

it is recorded in history ( although one has to dig deep to find the facts) that before Australian Aborigines there was a race of pygmy people that were wiped out by them.

If you mean Morrison he was one with a lot of ministeries which even the ministers did not know he had taken over from them.

We are more enlightened compared to the USA. We do not blame the minorities but we say the Government is going overboard trying to be Politically Correct and this is beginning to bring about splits in our society. I said there should be equality for all people of this nation. Do not use your preconceived ideas to incorrectly interpret my words.

Good on you for joining in.....Being fair you don't understand what is being discussed..and why would you? it hasn't been on your news...but it is an entirely different ball game here...we are going to be pushed into voting on something that we do not fully understand..and everybody is a bit worried..whatever their skin colour...we want some clarity and all we have is mud...and the assurance that no more details will be given.... until after we vote....scary stuff and people are not happy! Edited 27-Mar-23 01:21am

so when Australia was established as a nation it was equality for all - let me take a wild guess - NO - let me repeat myself - 'when things go bad - blame minorities or indigenous people - standard operating policy for the majority - in any so- called democracy - in addition, put the blame on minorities or indigenous people under the disguise of 'political correct ' (PC)' gone overboard - known as propaganda - I used my preconceived ideas to incorrectly interpret your words - REALLY (LMAO)!Edited 27-Mar-23 11:07am

Hey I pass loads of opinions and comments on what the US is doing too!!!! ...and when Linda says "we" she means just Linda...that is just her opinion...one person....its the royal "we"...nobody else needs to agree with her opinions.... Edited 27-Mar-23 01:29am

I have never blamed the minorities. I did say we need to look at health, housing and security before spending millions on a referendum that most of us know nothing about. It has not been fully explained clearly enough for everyone to be fully informed. So you can laugh all you want as you seem to prefer your interpretation of my words over my actual words and meaning.

A minority is an indigenous person - too. Let me quote your post back to. you. 'The indigenous people still get free health services, dental services, social security, housing, etc. whereas rest of Australia have lost most of these services. We are becoming the minority in our country, and yes, it is our country too no matter what a few might say.' It is the least you can offer indigenous people, since white Australians robbed indigenous people of their country and birthrights by violence. I am laughing because you left that part out of your post (LMAO)! Edited 27-Mar-23 03:36am

You have taken what I wrote out of context. Yes indigenous do get all the services which is great but the rest of Australia no longer do hence the minority are getting more than the majority. I believe in equal rights for all. It is our country also as I was born here as were my parents, grand parents, great grandparents etc. and many fought for the freedom we have in this land. There are a few who are denying us the right to say this. Again you are referring to past acts which has nothing to do with todays people. One cannot live in the past and be blamed for things done by those people. A minority is not just an indigenous person, a minority are people including Africans, Italians, Lebanese, French, or whatever nationality and groups of various activists, etc. who have only a small number of people living here. I also would never laugh at your posts or opinions as I find this rather rude. I have always respected your views and would appreciate the same in return.

it's not that Walter took what you wrote out of context, i believe he s just finishing up what you wrote,, you know, the parts you left out,, yes you do have a much more civil way of saying things there, but it's the same crap wherever you go, nobody wants to pay taxes if it's going to help the poor, sick, or people that some folks don't want to help,, my ancestors were Cherokee Indians, they/we still get the same kind of racial crap that has been going on since they stole this country from us, as i imagine the Aborigines still get in your country,,, but do have a fine day,,, 🙂Edited 27-Mar-23 04:41am

No he is not finishing what I wrote but putting his own twist on what I wrote same as it seems you have. I am sorry about what is going on in your country whether you are Black American or Native American, Jew or whatever but that is your countries problems. They are not the same as we have here - YET - and I hope we never do. The majority of Australians who pay taxes are not the rich but middle and lower socio economic. I have said over and over equal rights is what I believe in no matter what race, religion, etc. but this is not what is happening now. We were once considered the Lucky Country but no longer. We have 1000's of families living on the streets, many can no longer afford health facilities etc. many are on the verge of losing their homes if they haven't already. What I began this discussion about was a referendum which millions is being spent on which no one knows exactly what it is all about and that I felt this money should be spent on the necessities of today which is health, housing and security - FOR ALL .... I will have a nice day, thankyou and same to you.

Let me quote you (again). "Again, you are referring to past acts which has nothing to do with today's people. One cannot live in the past and be blamed for things done by those people." Those people are white Australians - you are white - you benefit on an overt and/or covert level (WHITE PRIVELEGE) - aka guilt by association - I know life is not fair - ask any minority or indigenous person in any country - just 'how' unfair LIFE can get in the 21st century BASED ON HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF (LMAO)!Edited 27-Mar-23 10:08am

Guilt by association - I think not. You speak of we white people negatively in every word you say. I have never spoken of indigenous in this manner. I am not a white privileged person and I do find that a racist comment albeit only whites apparently can say racists comments. There is less than 1 million indigenous/Torres Strait Island people in this country a number which has increased in the past few years due to more people wanting to be recognised as indigenous. They get financial help and do not pay taxes. They own around 50% of this country. Over $30 billion is spent each year on them including welfare, education, sports clothing and travel, housing and help with many community projects, etc. Estimated expenditure per person in 2012-13 was $43,449 for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians, compared with $20,900 for other Australians (a ratio of 2.08 to 1 — an increase from a ratio of 1.93 to 1 in 2008-09). Ask a lot of whites, Asians, etc. if they think they have it easy or think they are privileged as you seem to think we all are. We have 1000's of so called privileged white people living in tents in parks and streets unable to put roofs over their children's heads and food in their mouths. I will never take the blame for what the English did 200 years ago nor what some subsequent governments perpetrated. Yes indigenous were killed and many of these by their own native police and let me add only around 15000 or less is the estimated number. I think that is abhorrent but again I was not here nor were my ancestors. Most of my ancestors arrived mid 1850's having left Ireland due to the Potato Famine and treatment by the English. They came for a better life and struggled with many dying young due to TB in many cases, lack of hygiene, housing, medical care etc. Each generation did a little better but we are not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination. A lot of the male relatives fought in wars to keep this country and all who live here safe and free. You are a person I feel who bases all your comments on past events. Again, one must stop living in the past and blaming the next generation for the pasts errors whether white or black. How many countries are still fighting due to something that happened many generations ago. Feuds perpetrate hate. I still say one cannot live in the past nor be blamed for others sins or acts. One must look forward and if you cannot you are never going to solve the problems but perpetrate more. So you can LMAO all you want in my opinion. Nothing is being fixed with these closed minded attitudes.

Have you ever heard the words: accessories after the fact, colonialism, racism, sexism, white privilege, and WOKE (aka political correctness). All words invented by white people to explain their inhuman behavior and inhuman treatment of minorities worldwide in the 20th century! BOTTOM LINE: You are NOW using the old concept invented by white people: Blame the victim - LMAO!Edited 27-Mar-23 15:49pm

It's all very well saying everyone should be equal, but not everyone started off equal. Many had a head start as they were they ruling class or race and the others (especially indigenous) were left dispossesed and with very little to their names - no vast cattle properties or corporations to hand down to the generations after. That is why we can't ignore the past - it put certain groups of people in a very advantageous situation. Of course, some people did work hard and made their fortune and good luck to them, but others inherited the advantages from generations back - not many would've been indigenous and therefore they are still disadvantaged by this history.

Where did I blame the indigenous. Not at all. Again putting words into my statements that are not there but you seem to put there. Maybe you have the problem as I certainly do not. I do not like the word WOKE or what it invokes. Sexism is not limited to white people nor is racism.

wish I had your SKILL with words

Obvious - you cannot remember what you wrote and implied! GOODBYE (LMAO)!

Yes they did lose their land but as I said they now own nearly 50% of it. Reparations have been ongoing for years. Not many inherited advantages of generations past as you imply. One can never deny the history but we must strive to work together to improve our country, defend our country, and live together harmoniously. Many indigenous are doing very well for themselves and their families. They have received education and university degrees. You can either let yourself be defined by the past or go forwards and make something of yourself. This applies to all peoples.

Actually how many do you think inherited from the past. I assure you not that many. A few families is all. Most of the rest worked hard to achieve their goals. I think enough has been said on this subject as it has strayed from my original discussion matter. Thank you for your comments.

I think you'll find that most people at least inherited some property or bank balance from their parents or GP. I doubt many of the indigineous had either to pass down, therefore putting them at a disadvantage. As you imply, education is the key.

except Muslims

The Voice is actually putting them into our Constitution but other than that I cannot tell you what it will do, how it will help or if it is just lip service to them. Whatever, it will not fix the problems that are endemic in our society.